Articles, Blog

Career Development Personal Disruption Framework

January 15, 2020

hi guys welcome to our master class today about companies that don’t disrupt people do I’m going to be having a conversation with Whitney Marvin and she’s here with me and so we’re gonna wait about 30 seconds just to make sure everyone can get on to the master class and then we’re going to get started Oh fantastic hey Winnie how’s it going lied for me it’s going great fantastic well hopefully you’re having a beautiful day down in New York today in Boston is absolutely gorgeous which definitely is much needed for all the rain well so today we’re going to be talking about how people disrupt and I’m going to be interviewing you which I’m so excited about I read your book recently and as you know became just so obsessed with it and with you and so I’m just gonna give people a little introduction to who you are Whitney is one of the 50 leading business thinkers in the world according to thinkers 50 she’s the author of the critically acclaimed disrupt yourself which is fantastic and talks about the framework she developed um with after she co-founded the investment firm with Clayton Christensen she’s also a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review as well as the host of the disrupt yourself podcast which I was listening to this morning on my run which was great and so Whitney why don’t you tell a little bit to our viewers about these three books that we’re going to be giving away at the end of our little interview yeah so we just thought it would be really fun to uh once we’ve talked about this I Courtney and I agree that a lot of people would want to read some of them is so we decided that if you stick around to the end and you raise your hand we will have a mini raffle and I will sign on a book for each of you and send it in the mail so we hope that you’ll stick around and really enjoy this conversation that we’re about to have yes and with that please you know either tweet at us or you know mention in comments we have people paying attention to those we’d love to hear any questions that you have for Whitney as well as what you’re thinking about so let’s just dive right in Whitney on can you tell us sort of where you are right now and what you’re sort of up to yeah I’m actually in New York City today and the weather is beautiful here as well and I came to the city for a couple of reasons but what I’m doing today is I’ve been doing podcast interviews for my disruptor self podcast so this morning I had a conversation with Kara golden she’s the founder and CEO Kent water which is amazing if you’re trying to get off Diet Coke like I was about a year ago really fun and then another conversation with a fellow by the name of Patrick McGuinness who is the 10% entrepreneur but even more importantly while he was a hard business review not hard business review at Harvard Business School he came up with the term fall so you’re going to all about FOMO on the podcast episode with him so it’s been a lot of fun and now I get to have this conversation with you fantastic well I definitely have FOMO sometimes so I’ll be very interested to hear that podcast and so just to kind of get into this idea of disruptive innovation you discuss it a lot in your book as well as becoming a major theme in your life and the focus really of your entire second book can you tell us a little bit about the path you took to find disruptive innovation and maybe give us a brief definition of really what disruptive innovation is yeah great point your great great question all right so disruptive innovation it’s a term coined by clay Christensen at the Harvard Business School and it’s it’s basically a silly little thing that takes over the world so for example we had Toyota disrupt General Motors we’ve had Netflix disrupt blockbuster we had uber now disrupting caps so that’s what disruptive innovation is personal disruption which is what we’re really going to be talking about today is this notion of disrupting yourself so you start at the bottom of the ladder you’ve climbed at the top and then you jump to the bottom of a new ladder and a great example of this actually is Lady gaga if you think about Lady Gaga here is a woman who worked really hard in New York she goes to you know her first album 2008 she screamed to the top of the charts she’s just over the top bigger than life or larger than life and then she gets the number one on the charts and she completely disrupts herself she does things like rewards jazz with Tony Bennett she um she does a Sound of Music tribute she then does um what else did she do she recorded a country album so she disrupted herself and I it actually paid off because the Super Bowl a sh dair her the audience that was listening to her it was the largest music audience ever so the personal disruption again is starting at the bottom of the ladder climbing to the top and then jumping to the bottom of a new ladder so how does that play out in my life well I was disrupting before I knew I was I when I first graduated from college actually graduated in music from college what came here to New York with my husband he was in school and I didn’t realize this then but I wanted to work on Wall Street right and so for me I was a music major I hadn’t graduated from Ivy League school and I was a female so there was no way absolutely no way I was going to be able to walk in the front door and say hey Merrill Lynch hey Smith Barney hire me so I started as a silly little secretary but once I got a foothold on Wall Street and I saw it was happening and I started taking business courses at night I was eventually able to move up to the top of a ladder which was I was an equity research analyst and very good at it but then I jumped the bottom of the ladder I disrupted himself again in 2005 when I said Christensen’s book I just read innovators dilemma it was helping me understand what was happening in Latin America how Wireless was disrupting wireline but I was also having this personal epiphany that if I in fact once in my own career where I was at the time I had gone to my boss and said hey I want to be advantaged in some day it was kind of like yeah that ain’t gonna happen there were things I wanted to have happen that weren’t gonna happen if I stayed there so I had to disrupt myself I left Wall Street which I don’t always think is necessary but I left Wall Street and became her entrepreneur and then connected with clay Christensen and then moved up a new curve so that’s how it’s played out in my life but for everybody listening think to yourself silly little things starts the bottom ladder climb to the top and then jump to the bottom of a new ladder like Lady gaga and just like Lady Gaga I love that not that I think I really want to be Lady Gaga but it’s a good example there I think when I first started reading your book disrupt herself I connected with it a lot because I had recently gone through my own disruption I had been you know living in Colorado I had this nice life all planned out I was going to work for an environmental nonprofit it seems like I was sort of at the top of this ladder and feeling really good and I decided that really wasn’t going to be for me and I jumped to the very bottom of a ladder here at HubSpot and I you know entered as an entry-level hub spotter wasn’t exactly what I thought I was going to be doing um but that really connected with me when I started reading your book on you know a few months ago doesn’t know Courtney it’s a great example so we don’t want to go did you start a hub spot I’ve been at HubSpot now for almost two years which is crazy and climbing to the top of any letter right yeah it’s not like in much out yeah exactly Brian if you’re listening and what’s interesting just to kind of play this out a little bit more because I think oftentimes when I talk about the idea of disrupting yourself people think I mean you have to change jobs now in your instance you did you you love the environmental firm but but in fact what it is telling you is you just need to stay in a job three to four years and at that point it will be time to try something new so another year or two it’ll be time for you to stroke yourself inside a pub spot if they’re smart and what you do on a new role yeah and I mean I joined the Academy team back in January and had gone through a mini disruption leaving my training role and then becoming an inbound professor so I’ve already had a mini disruption in the two years ago there you go yeah and sort of building off this idea in your book you do talk a lot about the s-curve and jump when you s-curve and can you explain to us a little bit about that s-curve I know that we do have some slides here that display what its gonna look like yes please okay so why don’t you put up the very first slide to so that we can people can visualize it as we’re talking about it so one of the things that I discovered is that the s-curve that was popularized by Ian Rogers in 1962 which is really focused on helping people figure out how quickly an innovation will be adopted we use that as curve when we were in investing and the way we looked at it is we said all right when you first launch a new product you’re going to be at the bottom of the yes and so there’s going to be a lot of work happening but not a lot of results and then typically once you reach 10 to 15% market penetration you’re going to reach a tipping point at that point you’re going to move into hyper growth where you don’t have to work as hard and a lot is happening then at 90 percent or market penetration you reach saturation which again you might work really hard and not much is happening and if you were to plot this against Facebook which I do talk about in the book you’ll see that Facebook has matched almost perfectly curve now the big aha that I had as we were doing this investing is that you could also apply this s-curve to understand the psychology of disruption so for example if you’ve started a new job if you started a new project if you’ve started a new role the s-curve tells you that initially progress is going to be very slow by definition and knowing this helps you and you can go to the next slide for fun knowing this wide just discouragement then as you put in that work on you will start to accelerate into competence and with this comes confidence now if you’re tracking against the 10,000 hour rule that period of feeling completely incompetent and you’re only working 40 hours a week only then you’re going to be an out low under the curve about six months and you’ll figure out what you’re doing and you’ll move into competence and with that confidence and this is the exciting exhilarating part of the curve where all of your neurons are firing and you want to ideally be in that place as long as possible and typically again working 40 hours a week you’re going to be there for two to three years then as you approach mastery things will be very super easy but because you’re no longer enjoying the feel-good effects of all that learning you’re you can actually get bored and so sometimes what will happen is once you get bored if you don’t jump to a new career rather because you’re afraid to jump or your boss will let you jump that plateau can become a precipice and so bottom of the curve you can get discouraged that’s natural middle of the curve you feel confident you’re supposed to top of the curve it’s easy but you can get bored now I put a little link up here if you want to figure out or test where you think you are on the curve against where you are you can go to my website and just take this quick s-curve locator it’ll take you just a couple of minutes so that’s that’s where this came from that’s great I think go ahead Rick oh yeah no I think this can really help you know finding where you are on the s-curve for people I think when they’re starting to see that uphill battle out of confidence can really help them get that sense I know it’s something I struggle with personally where it’s like sort of where am I in my close to mastery am I not I feel confident but you know I’m not yet and being able to judge where you are on that s-curve I think and really help all of us so thank you for putting up that link there at the top yeah and so if you want to go to the next slide let’s just play this out so so you’ve got this this S curve and it helps you it basically gives you a framework for managing change um and managing change not only in the sense of your own personal trajectory so for example Courtney when you left Colorado to come to HubSpot but also when you’re managing people and and so if you want to optimize it and you’ve got a team of people who are working for you you ideally want 70% of your people in this sweet spot of that curve at any given time 15% of the people at the beginning of the curve so they’re learning they’re asking lots of questions they’re wondering why you do it the way you do it which opens the door to innovation and you want to have 50 percent of your people roughly at the top of the curve and so when you look at these s-curve locators from an organizational standpoint you can say yourself okay good we’re about where we need to be but then you want to focus on those people who are mastery level and say what are we going to do with them next because they’re a flight risk if you don’t find a way for them to disrupt themselves inside of your organization they may go elsewhere now one other thought and I’ll let you ask you know anything but what I wanted to do is say alright so here’s our s-curve but how do you do belong ask her and so I came up with seven accelerants which are also ways for people think about how do I actually like to disrupt so you take on the right kinds of risks you learn to play not only to your strengths that to your distinctive strengths you embrace constraints you actually discover and I think actually helps well by the way really fits this beautifully you discover that in order to climb occur you not only need to embrace that also if things are getting too easy you’ve got to impose the constraints you battle entitlement which is the belief that I exist therefore I deserve on once you get to the middle of that curb everything so easy you start thinking oh I don’t wanna list other people’s ideas because things are going well my margins are expanding what’s precisely at that time when you want to be listening to other ideas then sometimes you go step back in order to grow Courtney your example of coming to pub spots a great example of that your step back has become a slingshot for you give failures due we’ll talk about that I hope in a minute and then the importance of being willing to be discovered driven and so these seven accelerants movie along the curve quickly and every single one of us has one or two of these that we do actually really well and then we all have one or two that we don’t do as well and that the question is is just making sure you play to play to your strengths in terms of your your different accelerants yeah and I think that’s a great segue into you know sort of my next question here about you know giving failure it’s a do you know recently at HubSpot we did put on a failure for him and we discussed how important failure is we discussed the different types and you know you talk about this is an important aspect of failure and I think this is the thing on the s-curve I struggle with most you know really giving failure it’s due um you know what do you think are the most important aspects of failure and do you have an actual definition for failure yeah so love it okay so the first thing I would say is you know failure actually I mean we all fail fail all the time and we’re all sort of oh I think I’ll you know try you know try this and didn’t work working so we iterate so so that’s not really the kind of failure that I’m talking about I’m talking about the client where you try something and you sort of your ego was attached to it working and then it didn’t work and then how you feel around that now I want to just editorialize for a minute on this and why failure tends to be so hard for us most of the people that are listening to this podcast were probably pretty smart kids in school and what happens when you’re a smart kid in school and this is based on the research of Heidi Grant Halverson is that people reward you for being smart so you’re like you get an a on a test for like gee John you’re so smart or gee Jane you’re so smart and so you start to say to yourself well if I get an a on a test I’m smart if I don’t get an a on a test am i dumb and so our world becomes a very binary and so when we get into the workplace and we’re trying to do something and not everything can work our brains immediately go – I’m dumb and so it starts to go right to the core of our identity so what I’m talking about on failure is not the stuff that we sort of iterate on it we all have areas of our life and our professional world where were comfortable doing that I’m talking about the failures that kind of get us at the core and what I want to say here is is that it’s important absolutely essential that when something doesn’t work that we want it to work like we get fired for example which I have been easy to say to ourselves number one what did I learn from this and number two recognize that the failure is not a referendum on you on your identity in your sense of self and to ditch the shame because shame actually limits disruption it’s not failure and so those are really I think the two biggest biggest takeaways for me is to recognize that it’s hard because our identities tends to be attached to our being successful but once we become aware of that then we’re willing to start saying okay how do I separate my my core identity from with that but it just didn’t work now one other thought there in a workplace sometimes we say to ourselves well I’m willing to fail my boss won’t let me right that’s the bigger piece I would say to you you can’t control whether your boss will let you fail but there are a couple of things you can do you can manage their expectations they can say to you Jake I want you to take on this new project and you can say them okay I will I want you to understand there’s there some things that could happen here some may work some may not let’s experiment with this maybe let’s not put very much money behind this but I need to know that as we’re experimenting with this you’ll have my back and in order for you to have my back here’s how I need you to talk about it to management so you’re talking about it sort of improbabilities so that when it doesn’t work the way you thought it was an experiment and you’ve got a lot of good information and so and the last thing I would say is that if you have people on your team that you are not willing to let fail then you need to take a hard look at that because you’re star performers you do a fail and if they won’t let them fail then maybe they’re not in the right job hmm no I think that’s a great point for even us to hear is you know if were the people working for someone but for any boss or manager that’s managing people that’s such a good you know quality make sure you have the right expectations set I think on the Academy team we do that very well in some of our principles that we have you know always be learning and never settle they sort of combine those two things really well we’re you know we’re pushing ourselves we’re Chinese experiments um you know we’re never settling but if we fail we’re gonna learn from it and we’re always going to be learning in that process and that makes it really fun doesn’t it it does I love it I just ran an experiment on the Academy team that luckily worked out um but it could have not and I definitely would have learned from it as well but it would have been okay you would unfresh wasn’t attached yeah yeah exactly because I felt that space where I could fail if if that was going to be the way it was going to go and I think with this there’s another you know aspect on that s-curve the last one then the number seven the driven by discovery on one of your chapters in your book is titled this and you discuss the conventional planning verse discovery driven planning and sort of what are the differences here because I think a lot of us think in that conventional planning area not so much the discovery driven uh and right sort of suggests us focusing more on the discovery driven German okay so I would start by explaining the rationale for this so if you think about disruption you are you’re playing where no one else is playing on either because they haven’t thought of it or they don’t want to so by definition you excuse me are in search of a yet to be defined market which means you’re like an explorer so you can’t know where you’re going because you don’t know where you’re going I mean it’s it’s sound circular but it works okay so this idea of conventional versus discovery driven a lot of my work here is based and derived from Rita McGrath at Columbia so I want to give shots to her conventional planning let’s go back to when you were in school so conventional planning as you say it yourself I am going to take these courses and when I am I’m going to study this much and when I do all of these things I’m going to get A’s in all my classes and if I don’t get A’s in all the classes then the plan didn’t work that’s conventional planning and most of us are actually pretty good at conventional planning pretty good you know I do my work I go to my classes I’ll graduate from high school graduate from college now discovery driven planning looks like this you say you know you know what I want to be a doctor when I grow up so discovery driven plant now if it were conventional planning you’d say I want to be a doctor when I grow up you created checklist in fact I want to be a pediatric surgeon you created a checklist and you do step step step step step and at the end if you don’t become a pediatric surgeon you can failed that’s conventional planning discourage urban planning says only be a pediatric pediatric surgeon what kind of grades do I have to get in college in order to do that what classes do I have to get A’s in in particular like zoology biology chemistry you go you take those classes you get good enough grades you say okay I want to go to medical school you take the MCAT you do well you get into Medical School now once you get to medical school you’ve got two years where you take courses and you say can I do this do I want to do this am I willing to take the time it takes to get the grades I need say yes you go another two years now you get you to discover again because medical students do things called rotations they look at dermatology they look at orthopedics they look at psychology etc they get to rotate into different disciplines what they find out during that period is they may have thought they wanted to be a pediatric surgeon but in fact they don’t like children they don’t like working with you so they discover that they still want to be a doctor but they want to try something else they may discover wow I just invented a medical device so they become an inventor or they just start wow I love healing people but I can’t stand the sight of blood so they become a psychiatrist so at the end of all that they have discovered their way they take a step forward they gather feedback they adapt so they don’t become a pediatric surgeon they become a psychiatrist and you we all are actually much more discovery driven than we think we are but if you can take that approach in your career especially with all the ups and downs of maybe losing a job or didn’t not getting a job that you want but always recognize once you take that step you get feedback you adapt you go forward you will be much more successful because you’re going to be willing to play where others are not and the theory of disruption States when you take on this kind of risk you’re six times more likely to be successful the opportunity is 20 times greater so the discovery driven planning is essential to pursue a disruptive course yeah wow wow I amazing I think the good lesson for all of us you know I got a degree in communications and conflict resolution you know a lot of people would think that I was going to be a therapist because I had taken all these classes and conflict resolution and you know that’s wasn’t where I ended up going and you know now I’m here and I do marketing and sales education which yes communication is part of that but it wasn’t the initial sort of goal of what I wanted to do after I graduated and I think that discovery driven is right there with my personal journey absolutely and if I can pick up on something you just said so you studied conflict resolution that’s a great time to bring something out so if you remember on the slide we talked about strengths and distinctive strengths the conflict resolution for you strengths but conflict resolution isn’t a distinctive strength if you become an arbitrator or a mediator but in the workplace at an academy and running a team conflict resolution becomes a distinctive strength because you’re able to assemble a team that can work together and so that’s one of the aspects of personal disruption is figuring out what your strengths are and then putting yourself in a situation where that strength is not a strength that everybody else has yeah no and I think it’s definitely been a strength that I’ve seen come out in a lot of different ways and like interviews or it’s like yeah I actually have this as an additional to all these other things I think it helps sometimes yeah when dealing you know with my friends and family that guy nice aspect yeah absolutely yeah I’m speaking of family over the weekend while I was on a run I was listening to the interview you did on your disruptor self podcast with I think I’m gonna pronounce her name wrong but Krishna why are you that Providence important its crassula why number crassula winegar was awesome and uh you guys talked a lot about you know her program but also you know on top of that you very successful you’re contributing to all these different things you’re an author you’re an innovator you’re also a wife and mother of two you have two teenagers and I guess I want to ask you you know Mother’s Day just passed how do you sort of handle that work-life balance and what would be your advice to other working parents out there hmm such a great question so I think the first thing I would say it is um people do rear children on their own I mean there are a lot of single parents in the world um if it all possible rear your children with someone else um in in my case I have a wonderful husband and so I think that would be the first thing is is be very selective in who you decide to rear your children with um so it’s such a good question I’m gonna answer it but I think in a way that you hadn’t quite expected so we’ve got two children or our one son is on 20 and he’s actually in Brazil right now and I made some notes because I want to look at this um yeah so what I wanted to tell you um so he thought he’s in Brazil he’s been there for almost two years and he’s coming back in three months but he said he said to me for Mother’s Day mom I wanted to tell you about a memory that I remember and that I really appreciate and so he proceeded to tell me about a time is about seven years old and we had gone skiing and we were riding up in the chairlift um every time you know some kind of bump would happen I kept putting my arm over to protect him even though there was a bar and he got really mad at me he catch me Mom he’s seven years old long you’re overprotective you’re overprotective stop and I remember feeling very like like embarrassed almost like I was being a bad mom as he sings to me and so he said to me but I realized now so he’s 20 years old he says I realize now that you were trying to protect me this is your way of showing that you loved me and so one of the things I advice I would give with our children because the reality is is we’re all going to parent differently but one thing I discovered is that don’t always listen to your children when they’re giving you feedback ha ha ha no be okay I mean you say listen to your customer listen to your customer but let it be okay that you’re strict let it be okay that they don’t always like you another thing my daughter said to the other day is mom so she’s 16 she said mom you know whenever you give me advice I know inside of myself that it’s probably good advice but I argue with you and try to make sure that I win the argument so that I don’t have to actually act on your advice again don’t listen to your customer right and so my advice to the parents out there is that if you feel strongly about again number one partner with someone that you feel really comfortable partnering with and then number two is be willing to be the parent you think you should be and when you get feedback from your customers you know like Henry Ford said if I gave him what I wanted to be a bigger better buggy if we always gave our children what they wanted they wouldn’t be who they want to be and they will resent you for it so like my son I’ll tell you one of the story when I was 7 I let him quit piano I shouldn’t have no kids and he still won’t forgive me yeah that is my advice for the day don’t listen to the customer when it’s your trial do what you think you need to do as a parent I think that’s great advice I I’m just because Mother’s Day just passed I will give out a quick shout out to my own mother who I love very dearly um when I was going into high school she wanted to send me to a local private school it ended up being Catholic I didn’t want to go I complained I yelled I’m sure I was you know the worst child in the world she didn’t listen to me and she sent me to it anyways and you know I credit that decision to you know getting into my the right college and you know ending up here where I absolutely love so I think she followed your advice to the teeth and not listen and you followed her which ever yeah yeah parents be you he would like to Sam I love it um so kind of as were sort of you know whining down here and leaving plenty of room for questions at the end I did hear through the grapevine that you may have a third book coming out is there anything I tell us about guides or what might be awkward yeah first of all I’m super happy because I met my deadline I had to turn in the manuscript to Harvard Business Press on May first and I did so yeah I have some really good editors and so I’m happy about that so what I decided to do in this book and I kind of hinted at some of it in a conversation that we’ve had the first book really talks about how do you disrupt yourself um what does that look like what kind of disrupter you are but one of the things that I’ve had people say to me is okay this is fantastic but how do I let my boss how do I get my boss to let me disrupt myself and how do I get the people who work for me to disrupt themselves and so this next book is really taking this framework and putting it inside of a system so how do I manage my team is a collection of s-curves how do I manage people when they’re starting out when they’re in the sweet spot of occur one at the top of the curve how do I manage it when it’s time to for them to jump to a new coach so that’s what it is son that’s what it’s about and I’m super excited about it I’m excited to uh I’m excited to add that to the library that I’m quickly reading so that’ll be exciting you’ll have to let us know when that is down to hit the bookshelves I will do that awesome so my last question for you and then I’ll turn it over to the questions that are coming in is you know what would be one piece advice for anyone looking to go through their own personal disruption that you would give them hmm okay so two pieces of advice one is um when you’re in the sweet spot of the s-curve and you and everybody will be at some point is – at that point in time push yourself to ask questions and figure out what you can do better allow yourself to be stretched so that would be the first piece of advice and don’t get complacent be stretched second piece I would say is that because you’re playing where no one else is playing um disruption well textbooks aren’t going to tell you this and actually no one can play this but I am is that disruption by definition by definition it’s scary and it’s lonely so if at any point in your disruptive journey you feel scared or if you feel lonely you are probably on the right path to disruption that is my piece of advice I think that’s a really good piece of advice I definitely felt very lonely and a little scared as I moved to Boston and it’s definitely paid off so I’m glad that I didn’t listen to that loneliness and kind of retreat uh and so with that we do have a few questions coming in here so I’ll just read them off to you right the first one that we have is as a manager how can I inspire my team to think of their current s-curve and jump to the next if they are ready to do so great question alright so first of all I would help them understand what the s purpose that they’re they’re kind of aware of what their trajectory looks like so they’ve got a framework for thinking about where they are because if you go to them and say hey what are you going to do next they’ll think are they trying to get rid of me and you don’t want to do that so if you talk them through the framework is and say alright so here’s where you are you’re on the sweet spot right now everything is working in another year so you’re going to get to the height of this curve and you’re going to to get a little bit four so what I want you to do and especially if you’re in a high-growth company I want you to be thinking about who’s going to replace you and what is you think you want to do next so that you’re preparing to move to that new role now a word on that when you want to jump to a new role inside an organization or outside you’re saying to your boss I want to jump to new curve and when you jump to a new curve you’re also asking your current boss or your next boss to jump to that new curve with you so you’ve got to pack a parachute for them in de-risk that jump by preparing as much as possible and connecting the dots as much as possible so that they’re confident that in fact you can take on that new role so recapping number one make sure they understand what the s-curve actually is why right now they love their job but at some point they won’t you want them to be thinking about what it is they’d like to do next but also training your replacement and then when it’s time to jump make sure number one that they’re good enough that you the boss want to advocate for them and then secondly um be able to connect the dots and make this make sense for people as to why this makes sense so that your de-risking it or that the hiring manager know and that’s great I think with that something that I’ve seen recently that HubSpot as a whole as well as specifically HubSpot Academy has been doing is having more conversations around professional growth and being very transparent about you know what are the skills that you need to be accomplishing and be mastering or you know being proficient at before you can even you know think about jumping or what’s going to make that jump really successful I think in you know my personal past like having you know had that opportunity to openly talk about professional growth and now that I have it’s making those jumps just feel a lot more successful and a little less like I was falling through the air right on it and then it institutionalizing a change right and so it just and and what I find suffice is how few managers actually will still like how do I do this and I’ll say to them have you ever sat down and just asked the person what is they want to do and they’re like well no like just ask them they’ll tell you right he’ll tell you so anyway great it’s good to hear awesome and so we have a second question here from Jason he says how can I best sell my spouse on the idea of personal disruption in my career okay well I would say if you’re if you’re disrupting yourself inside of your organization you don’t need to persuade your spouse you just need to persuade your boss but it sounds like Jason’s asking how do I persuade my spouse to go try a new job or something new that I haven’t done before and that’s kind of scary for her I’m assuming it’s a her so what I would say is that Jason the same rule applies here is that when you want to jump to a new learning curve you’re asking your wife to jump with you and so how can you dearest that jump for her on how can you say to her for example this is where the discovery driven process can come out honey what needs to be true for you you to get comfortable with me making this job what information do you need to have what how much money do you need to have in the bank what what what kinds of things need to be true and what what I need to do before I made that jump that would make you more comfortable so really battling your your own sense of entitlement like I deserve to jump to any job and saying I’m going to get the buy-in from my spouse and here’s how here’s how I’m going to do it and again taking that approach is saying what needs to be true for you to be comfortable with me doing it it sounds so obvious but we don’t do it so if you do that then then your wife will be like you are the most awesome husband ever so Jason that’s my my marital in couples therapy applies for the day I like that and they just want to point out to everyone that’s listening Whitney did dedicate disrupt yourself to my husband who always says jump and when I first read that um I thought that was great and gave me a lot of confidence in the fact that you know she was able to do this successfully and sort of keep these other aspects of her personal life afloat which I think we all struggle with a little bit so I just wanted to point that out um real quickly before we move on to our next question here um so we have another question that says what advice do you have for someone nearing the confidence section of the s-curve oh okay well first of all congratulations it’s about to get really really fun um what I would say to you is as you move into this sweet spot of the s-curve is to first of all just enjoy it right you’ve been through six months of going home from work every day feeling like I don’t quite know what I’m doing and right now you really do and so I would save yourself enjoy it and then and then push yourself so give yourself three months or so and then look for ways to continually challenge what you’re doing so for example one thing you can do is you feel like you’re doing the job pretty well and you could just kind of coast start reaching out to other silos or other departments inside of your organization say here’s what we doing what can we do better and when you get naysayers saying what would you do how would you do it differently so really one of the ways you battle entitlement a move of that curve is to open on her Network and talk to people not like you so I would say one tangible concrete thing you can do moving to the sweet spot is to now you feel like you’ve got some grasp of what you’re doing open up your network and start cultivating opinions and ideas from people across and other silos either internally or externally no and I think that’s fantastic I mean you know that’s the whole reason why we’re here today you know I reached out to you you were sort of in a different area that I was in and you know wanted to learn from you and open that sort of – the rest of you know these people here so I think that’s fantastic we have a few more questions here one from Anna she says what if there’s just nowhere to go if it’s Flag instead of a curve uh flat maybe yeah I yeah so what if what if there’s my wouldn’t blow at all if it’s flat instead of a curve okay great question Anna so hmm so when you’re on a curve remember I said a few minutes ago about how the odds of success are six times higher well that’s six percent to thirty six percent so there’s still a sixty four percent chance it’s actually not the right curve so we’ve lots of like not right curves in our life there lots of you know some big ones some little ones so if you’re caring for questions I want you to ask yourself to figure out if you’re on the right curve then I’ll explain what you should do if you’re not number one ask yourself on my plane where no one else is playing and that can be in spite of a job so for example you get hired to do a job that like there’s someone else in the company are you doing it that’s a red flag like probably not the right fit so number two are you playing To Your Strengths your distinctive strengths question number two if you can answer yes then Sam curve number three is it hard but not a debilitating and what do I mean by that if you show up to work every day and you’re like this is really hard but oh so fun then growth is going to come but if you find yourself feeling exhausted and you’re actually maybe even getting sick then that’s a symptom that the curve is flat line it’s just not a good curve any question number four is are you gaining momentum now there are lots of different metrics you can use we see metrics all the time when you’re trying to figure out how many views you have the way you can use that metric for you at work is for example if this week you went home from work on one day and or see what you have one hour where you felt like you knew what you were doing and next week you have four hours where you feel like you know what you’re doing then you’re gaining so take on market risk play To Your Strengths hard but not debilitating and number four are you gaining momentum now if you can answer yes all poreless questions and you just need to persist sometimes you just have to work harder if your answers to those questions are no to three or more then you need to jump to your curl now which means sometimes you have to change jobs you just have to and that’s okay but better that you figure out that you need to then you get fired although you might get fired in that line to the underworld either so um but that the good news is is that no s-curve even if it’s not working is ever wasted because as you go through your life and I know how old you are but what I know is that every kind of little piece of things that worked or didn’t work they they come together and eventually all those little curves they will come to the right curve for you and maybe you’ll figure it out sooner maybe you’ll figure it out later but if you keep being willing to disrupt yourself you will eventually find a pretty ideal cord for yourself known I think that’s great a great advice for Anna so hopefully she took some notes there and is going to be able to ask herself those questions to find her next curve um we have a few more here with just about ten minutes left we have one from Hunter so he says if you’re on a career path that you see moving differently than you want should you disrupt yourself earlier on the s-curve than expected or wait until you learn what you can and then disrupt what a great question hunter um I think what I would say is if you so one thing I didn’t say earlier but when there’s a time when you kind of know kind of deep right here in your gut that you need to do it if you don’t listen to that you will go awry so what I would say to you is it always takes longer to find a new curve than you think it will so if you you’re the very the very fact that you’re asking me that question would suggest to me that it’s probably time for you to start finding a new curve and it could take you three months of continued six months but while you do that then do the very difficult thing of when you’re at work stay engaged in what you’re doing and learning whatever you can it’s hard it’s really hard to try to ride two fortresses but that is what I would encourage you to do to start putting the peat in place the pieces now to do that and at the same time learn as much as you can while you’re still there Shoal to work when you’re at work and then figure out what’s next it’s stuff really hard I I did that when I was working for this environmental nonprofit and the environmental world is very different than what I was interviewing for and sort of having those two sides of myself was difficult but definitely worth it in the long run um yeah and because that’s always easy Courtney just it’s always easier to get a job when you have a job always always definitely okay go ahead and so we have one from Valentina she says how do you fight the fear and continue on the path to be disruptive ah so two things I would say first of all you fight the fear by getting information so number one is you now know cuz I just told you that if you feel the scary and lonely you’re on the right path so that’s helpful the other way that you fight the fear is you know the data will tell you is that whenever you go into when you when you when you try something new when you play where no one else is playing it feels really risky it feels risky because it’s uncertain but what we now know is that when you take on competitive risk that actually feels less risky but it’s more risky so for example let me give you a better let me give you example so if you decide that you want to go after and go after Bob and you see that there is a job posting on LinkedIn you know that there’s a job you know those job right it’s on LinkedIn but you have to figure out if compared the 50 or 100 other people are applying you can compete in winning so you’re taking on competitive risks and the odds of winning when you take on competitive risk are six times lower than when you take on market risk so it feels more certain but in fact it’s more risky so then if you can tell yourself all right I’m gonna go try something I see a need that this company like HubSpot needs to solve and I see a problem that they have but I don’t there’s no job posting but I’m going to approach them and actually Valentina listened to one of my podcasts Sarah Feingold she went to Etsy and said you need a lawyer hire me this is a great example of this so you don’t know what there’s a job but if you can persuade them to create that job to create that market then you’re going to get the job like the jobs are a lot higher so your odds are six times higher so if you can arm yourself with saying I’m scares oh I’m supposed to be scared and oh this feels a lot less certain but I’m going to be more successful if I’m willing to go where it’s less certain as opposed to this place over here that feels really comfortable which is more risky then those two things can start to help you navigate that risk now sometimes it’s all about just taking that deep breath and going with where it’s a little more scary but definitely check out that podcast I loved it I listened to that one recently as well so uh we’ve got a few more here from Lawrence what’s the best approach to broaching disruptive ideas with the boss Oh Thank You Lawrence for asking that um so what I would say is let’s go back to the number four and we kind of touched on this earlier is sometimes whenever we have an idea and because it’s our idea it’s brilliant but our boss doesn’t know it’s brilliant um and so and yet our tendency is to say well I know it’s brilliant so therefore my boss should know it too well they don’t know it – again you’re asking them to jump to a new curve with you and so when you’re trying to broach these ideas with your boss say to yourself how can I do risk this idea so that my boss will want to adopt it what do I mean by that you can disagree risk it by number one figuring out what language your boss speaks maybe your boss is up money person or numbers person well then don’t talk about how this is going to be good for your brand talk about how it’s going to be good for your bottom line so figure out the language they speak speak that language number two start to gather data look do research figure out what that idea is and why you think it could be helpful or beneficial and not to you but to your boss and your team and number three I had a number three and I can’t think of what it is um I don’t remember my name of course I’m sorry if I remember what it is I will come back to it Ben that gives you a good start just remember that you’re trying to do risk this for your boss and if you can put in their language that they will understand and be humble enough to do the hard work of getting buy-in from them then you are much more likely to get your ideas adopted definitely I think language is huge we talked a lot about that with our customers and making sure that we’re speaking the language that they can understand you know whether they’re a marketer or someone who’s a little more technical you know your language is going to really shift between those two things and it’s going to apply the same where you get buy-in from your boss exactly so I think we’re gonna go with our last question here it’s from Kelly she asks how do you counter people thinking you’re overqualified when you’re really just trying something new so oh okay so I’m going to extrapolate a little bit here so what you’re think let me assume that you’re saying you want to try something new and people are looking at you going like why do you want to do this you’re you’re you’re qualified really quickly I think it’s a fair question because you know we know that you’re going to be a better employee if you’re really challenged and engaged and so I think that probably part of the narrative first first of all is sometimes overqualified is code for we just don’t want to hire you meaning you don’t look like how you need to look or you’re too old etcetera so you need to kind of tease out what do they mean actually when they say I’m over or you’re too expensive what do they mean actually when they say I’m overqualified and if you can tease that out or figure that out then from there on again you’ve got to figure out a way to connect the dots for them to see why it will create value for them to have you there but always go back to what is in it for this person to hire me and why does it make sense for them to hire me and one of the things that’s hard is when you’re looking for a new role we feel a little bit kind of me because we’re this sense of like I don’t get this job I won’t feel valuable again talking back to the failure but if you can always put yourself in their position that will help but I would begin again by trying to tease out what exactly do they mean when are several qualified is it code for something else interesting I think that’s good advice for Kelly and we’re just about out of time here so I want to say thank you for you know reaching out to me when I very quickly tweeted at you after I fell in love with disrupt yourself and for uh coming to our master class today who gives the books so it looks like here Jason why is our first real question I think Anna had a really great one and Lawrence it looks like these are three potential winners here okay so Jason Anna and Lauren if you would you email Courtney just make sure you give her your address and if you want just tell me a little bit more about yourself and then she will pass that along to me and I will send that off to you and the mail in the next week or so so thank you everyone for being here yeah no this was great so Jason Anna and Lawrence please you know send me an email you can find my information you can tweet at me see some blur I can tweet it Whitney for sure but you’re getting some books coming your way fantastic all right Whitney you have a great rest of your day thank you all right take care Courtney

1 Comment

  • Reply SEO Tools TV January 9, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    Disrupt yourself with excuses and other losers' stuff. If you wanna win than jump in one topic and work hard!

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